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#1 2011-12-05 08:16:32

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Guys, push buttons harder!

After our recent Ultraxion first kill, I had few doubts relating to hunters so I played a little bit with the logs to try and track down the source of difference in our dps.


Here's a link to the comparison. To my surprise, there's actually very little I was able to notice. Still, there's some smll room for improvement.

First, the basics. This is all assuming logs are in no way broken, which is usually a fair assumption, though for example the use of Deterrance makes me question it this time. Still:
- While being a simplification, a simple statement holds - ToDe and myself have equally good gear (since our abilites hit for equally much on average), while Maxilla is some 10% behind.
- The kill was lucky for ToDe. He had considerably higher crit chance on everything than Maxilla and myself.
- Call of the Wild. Maxilla and myself failed since we only used it once, while ToDe twice. In my case, the reason is that I have it macro'ed to Rapid Fire. Lesson learnt.
- Potion of Tol'Vir. ToDe failed, since he only used one, as oposed to Maxilla and myself.
- Hit per minute of just about any ability. Maxilla and ToDe have roughly one cast of everything less per minute than myself. This is to an extent explied by the fact, that I was lucky and got less Fading Light. Still, I would expect more hits per minute especially from ToDe, since he's gearing for haste, while Maxilla and me are after mastery. Push buttons harder and make sure you are using Glyph of Chimera Shot (and once/if you do, make sure to keep Chimera on cooldown, no matter what, time your steadies/instants so that Chimera never waits).
- Aimed Shot (hard cast). One of the main sources of difference. We used heroism at the pull, pre-poted and had all procs up in the start. Until the boss hits 90% either ignore Serpent Sting and Chimera completely (just don't use it) and spam 2x steady and hardcast Aimed without capping focus, or only use Chimera rare enough to keep Seprent up. This goes for every sane hunter, but even more so for those who are after haste. Meanwhile, I did more than 2 times as many Aimed Shots as ToDe and 250% of his damage from this ability. Below 90% it's less obvious, ideally time Rapid Fire with Devour, regardless - do hard cast Aimed with Rapid Fire. Even more so if you have Heroism and Rapid Fire up at the same time.

It's a pitty we couldn't fit Glubur in, since in late Firelands he was often landing between ToDe and me in terms of damage done. Would make the comparison even more interesting.

Overall conclusion - despite being low in terms of total damage done, we did reasonably well. This is both good (since we're not terrible) and bad (since we need to try harder than many other classes to remain useful). This is still early stage of this tier of content, but as it is now, I'm assuming between 2 and 3 hunters per raid on average. That means me and 2 other hunters in the raiding roster. Right now we have 4, soon to be 5. The performance, measured by dps and not messing up, will be the key factor to decide who gets to stay.

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#2 2011-12-05 09:52:49

Baqa
Guild Member
Registered: 2007-04-10
Posts: 601

Re: Guys, push buttons harder!

Cracked the reforge code yet? Our hunter went down like 8k dps when the patch hit live. Still having a hard time figuring out if its mastery or haste, or heck, even crit.

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#3 2011-12-05 09:55:12

Maxilla
Leading Team
Registered: 2009-11-18
Posts: 318

Re: Guys, push buttons harder!

The reason for my Call of the Wild failure is the same as yours - I macroed it to Rapid Fire, but I am usually clicking it manually in fights like this, where I use Readiness differently. Yesterday I completely forgot to pay attention to it because the big purple button was hiding it. At first I thought about moving it but didn't because I figured that I didn't really need to see any of the buttons it was covering - my bad! tongue

I must say I got a little frustrated with being told to push the buttons harder as I really couldn't see that many ways to improve. I was getting my rhythm broken by Fading Light fairly often and felt I did as well as I could with that. Many of them landed close to twilight so I played it safe and got out at 5 seconds left, which is a lot of waste. With more time ther I might get a better feeling of when thats really needed and when not.  It helped a little on my dps to reduce the lag, but not that much so that's not it either.

I will try to cast more Aimed shots in the beginning and ofc to not repeat the fail mentioned above, but I doubt that will give the huge improvement you were asking for yesterday. Im usually not all about blaming gear, but I do believe that in this case the difference is bigger than the 10% you set it at. Mostly because I don't have a HC weapon as you guys do, but I'm also aware that gear can't just be it. I simply just cannot explain why the difference was that big between us.

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#4 2011-12-05 10:19:20

Axc
Leading Team
Registered: 2010-11-24
Posts: 799

Re: Guys, push buttons harder!

Lamme wrote:

- Hit per minute of just about any ability. Maxilla and ToDe have roughly one cast of everything less per minute than myself. This is to an extent explied by the fact, that I was lucky and got less Fading Light.

A tiny part of this might be gained by delaying shifting out a bit when Hour of Twilight is being cast. The "teleport" ability is off GCD, so depending on lag you can safely delay using it until there is ~2s-1.5s left on the cast. Just don't die doing that.

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#5 2011-12-05 11:54:41

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

Re: Guys, push buttons harder!

Lamme wrote:

- Potion of Tol'Vir. ToDe failed, since he only used one, as oposed to Maxilla and myself.

Werid, I pre-potted and used the second pot during the second rapid fire.

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#6 2011-12-05 15:04:59

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: Guys, push buttons harder!

Ah, ToDe, that's good. Maybe you pre-poted early enough for the log not to register it as part of the fight. Only thing I can think of.

And Maxilla, just to be sure, the post wan not meant as "omg you suck, try harder", on the contrary, I specifically wrote we did fairly ok, all 3 of us, which actually make things fairly challenging, since display playng fine we ended up, well, neck-bottom on the dps list.

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#7 2011-12-05 16:14:29

Maxilla
Leading Team
Registered: 2009-11-18
Posts: 318

Re: Guys, push buttons harder!

I know and I find the post very fine, we should always try to improve and here we have a very nice opportunity to do so as we had many longer lasting tries for comparison. What I meant was that it was very frustrating for me to not have a clue why my dps was so much lower. The fact that you mentioned it yesterday just made it more clear that something was surely off, but I still can't say what. I know of a few minor things that I need to improve on but have no clue why the difference was that huge. What Axc posted is something I can do better and then a few other small things but I doubt it will put me where I feel like I should be at.

Last edited by Maxilla (2011-12-05 16:14:56)

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