The Enigma Order

sweter · 2006-12-14 15:18:51

I've never thought of a smart casting order before 2.0 patch, because it was so simple: fireball - fireblast, FN, fireball etc. But yesterday after mastering Dragon's Breath (best utility/damage spell ever, just needs a little bit practice) and Blastwave I made some thoughts about a "chain" of uninterrupted damage that we could start every time we sheep the enemy. Or every time when it's us starting the fight/attacking the enemy. (damn I hope it's not the most obvious tac ever and Y'all know it already).

Situation A - sheep.
Ok, we all know how to sheep. Frost nova melees, CS (ye right, we all ove GCD ) casters, or just a classic shepp-him-when-he's-mounted thing. When he's sheeped, You've got a first strike. We like that, don't we?

First, get to 3-4 yards range. I know it sounds odd, cos we rather try to stay at the longer distance. But trust me and do it, get close. When You're close, start casting fireball (ofc use ZHC, ToEP, combustion if it's ready). As soon as You shoot a fireball, immidiatelly use Dragon's Breath, so it hits the enemy and stuns for 3 seconds (1,5 seconds eff. because of GCD) in the same moment that a fireball lands. When the GCD is over, cast scorch followed by Fire Blast. Now, after using four spells, this is the first moment where the enemy can interrupt, hit or try to move, so You can choose either to nuke him down with a Blastwave or use FN/blink to get some advantage. But with combustion, a trinket (it's all very fast, so even ToEP won't wear off), molten fury and our imba critchances, it's not likely that You still have an enemy in that moment.
And even if he's still alive and heavily wounded, he's dazed and I am at full HP, with some combustion charges. Cos 3 combustion crits in that combination = pwn, and noone should survive it. So if he's still alive, that would mean that You didnt crit. But who cares, blink, scorch, fireblast, done.

For me it works perfect. Even if - at the moment of sheeping - I'm low on health, I still dont loose confidence, because that chain is so reliable and the enemy just can't break it (ok, forst mages can, but thats the only class; and with druids, you just FN + DB cos they're unsheepable).

And the major advantage of this combo: the whole spell sequence is NOT based on cooldowns longer than 20 seconds.

holykami · 2006-12-14 15:40:26

The problem with these kinds of theories is, that there are far too many things that can happen while you are doing your thing. And tbh, I wouldn`t recommend getting close to anything, rogues and warrior will try to get close anyway, so you`ll have your dragon`s breath for when they do, so you can run away again.

I don`t have a mage above level 17, so I can`t really tell, but if I were you, I`d just stay as far away as possible, and use dragons breath to either get some distance, or like a secondary counterspell to interrupt dangerous spells (like heals or any warlock spell).

Last edited by holykami (2006-12-14 15:42:17)

sweter · 2006-12-14 15:58:51

holykami wrote:
The problem with these kinds of theories is, that there are far too many things that can happen while you are doing your thing. And tbh, I wouldn`t recommend getting close to anything, rogues and warrior will try to get close anyway, so you`ll have your dragon`s breath for when they do, so you can run away again.

I don`t have a mage above level 17, so I can`t really tell, but if I were you, I`d just stay as far away as possible, and use dragons breath to either get some distance, or like a secondary counterspell to interrupt dangerous spells (like heals or any warlock spell).

It's not a theory, I've been doing it since my first TBC beta build. The advantage of this combo is that first 4 spells are not interruptable, and a sheeped rogue is a dead rogue here.

EDIT: ah, and try to hit a rogue with DB when he runs around You stunning/etc. No way.

Last edited by sweter (2006-12-14 15:59:38)

Kelthalas · 2006-12-14 16:36:17

after casting dragon's breath I usually cast spells in the following order:

Scorch --> Fireblast --> Blastwave --> Blink --> Fireball/Scorch (depending on target hp)-

should he still be alive, then FN is ready and cd on Fireblast is also ready (specced faster cd on fire blast ^^) and by that time another dragon's breath should be ready an a few sec

sweter · 2006-12-14 16:47:43

Kelthalas wrote:
after casting dragon's breath I usually cast spells in the following order:

Scorch --> Fireblast --> Blastwave --> Blink --> Fireball/Scorch (depending on target hp)-

should he still be alive, then FN is ready and cd on Fireblast is also ready (specced faster cd on fire blast ^^) and by that time another dragon's breath should be ready an a few sec

Yeah, thats exactly the same thing that I do It's just crucial to stun the noob right after the opening nuke and NOT to cast fireblast right after DB, cos that will trigger GCD and leave us with no instants to cast after.

Enimusha · 2006-12-14 17:36:34

Sounds really good and i'll try this when i get home from work (i'm still deep fire). In theory it can work but like Kami said, in real world (of warcraft) it might be different with alot of factors in it. If opponent resists DB, you're in deep shit if you're 2 feet away.

holykami · 2006-12-14 17:51:18

sweter wrote:
It's not a theory, I've been doing it since my first TBC beta build. The advantage of this combo is that first 4 spells are not interruptable, and a sheeped rogue is a dead rogue here.

EDIT: ah, and try to hit a rogue with DB when he runs around You stunning/etc. No way.

Ah, my mistake, I thought it was an instant ><

sweter · 2006-12-14 18:02:29

Enimusha wrote:
Sounds really good and i'll try this when i get home from work (i'm still deep fire). In theory it can work but like Kami said, in real world (of warcraft) it might be different with alot of factors in it. If opponent resists DB, you're in deep shit if you're 2 feet away.

The key to this combo is to practice and master DB. We all know it has a little bit short and narrow cone, and at the beginning it can be easy to miss. But after couple of days of training I'm hitting it while jumping and turning around (unless my enemy laggs ).

Resists... Hm, our fire builds are 48/3, and we all have alot of +hit from EQ. Not a major issue imo, even if he resists, we still have FN/blink/blast wave

Oh, and btw - fire ward/priest shield/ice barrier absorbs damage, but the target can be stunned anyways

sweter · 2006-12-14 18:03:57

holykami wrote:
sweter wrote:
It's not a theory, I've been doing it since my first TBC beta build. The advantage of this combo is that first 4 spells are not interruptable, and a sheeped rogue is a dead rogue here.

EDIT: ah, and try to hit a rogue with DB when he runs around You stunning/etc. No way.
Ah, my mistake, I thought it was an instant ><

Yeah it is an instant, but its cone is alot smaller than CoC. So It's hard to hit sometimes, especially when rogue sprints. Or saps. Or gouges. Or kidney shots. Or...

holykami · 2006-12-14 18:18:13

sweter wrote:
holykami wrote:
sweter wrote:
It's not a theory, I've been doing it since my first TBC beta build. The advantage of this combo is that first 4 spells are not interruptable, and a sheeped rogue is a dead rogue here.

EDIT: ah, and try to hit a rogue with DB when he runs around You stunning/etc. No way.
Ah, my mistake, I thought it was an instant ><
Yeah it is an instant, but its cone is alot smaller than CoC. So It's hard to hit sometimes, especially when rogue sprints. Or saps. Or gouges. Or kidney shots. Or...

Ah yeah, then I see the problem, especially with the bg lag.

Beardstorm · 2006-12-14 20:02:51

Tis an awesome combo but I'd imagine it's harder to pull off in a 2v2, 3v3 situation where the dudes partner will probably do something to screw it up.

ARGH wish my respec cost wasn't so high, got so many different things to try out!

sweter · 2006-12-14 20:36:38

Beardstorm wrote:
Tis an awesome combo but I'd imagine it's harder to pull off in a 2v2, 3v3 situation where the dudes partner will probably do something to screw it up.

ARGH wish my respec cost wasn't so high, got so many different things to try out!

Hm, ofc it's not a mass pvp nuclear bomb, but if You manage to sheep one of the opponents and DB the second one, you and Your mate are almost home. In addition, in mass pvp people tend to clump up. Blink + DB, blast wave, FN, run away... Just as I said - it needs a little bit practice, You need to get a feeling of the cone's lenght. Easy way: duel someone and tell him You need to test it.

(Then beat the shit outta him and let people think you owned him hard in a serious fight - they dont know what's happened when they stand by the AH and only see yellow messages)

Ah, I can give You some golds for a respec, got some spare coins now when we dont raid. How much do You need?

Kelthalas · 2006-12-15 05:06:33

try doing the combo inside AV with a group of 20 hordes clumped together heading for stormpike. LOADS OF FUN! amazing how much damage you can cause and the confusion and panic of seeing 15 ppl around you loosing 30-40% hp on just a db and blastwave ^_^ get two healers on you and AE on till the hordes die.. it CAN be done.. once at least Side effect: Mass hatred from many horde players <3 ^_^

Apox · 2006-12-15 20:41:45

sounds like I have to rethink my tactic against firemages. Cause as a paladin I don't see much counter to this tactic, other than burning DS or using repentance to get a heal off, but after that it's probably resheep again so

Not too worried though, since 99% of the mages out there tend to run to max distance for a fireball after sheeping, which I've found a nice counter to, instead of running towards the mage and dying, I just run away and force him to blink, then it's hammer of WTF, and one dead mage (if lucky with procs and crits) A paladin kiting a mage, oh the irony

Last edited by Apox (2006-12-15 20:42:42)

sweter · 2006-12-19 01:12:51

Yep. I officialy claim this tactic as a healer-killer and sheep-killer. Gonna make a pvp movie and spread the news around the mage world, because it looks like some sorry noobs still trying to kill durids from max range!

And Apox: I only loose to those palas who, when I want to duel them, say: OK DUDE JUST GIMME 3 MORE MINS, DONT HAVE CD'S.
Hehe. With this tac, a mage is duel-ready every 20 seconds!

Enimusha · 2006-12-20 13:38:22

Dont spread it around too much or we'll get a nerf for sure.

denatus · 2006-12-20 13:46:58

I've used this tac since I got the beta key and transferred the mage, I used it for pve lvl grinding actually.

Fireball/Pyro(opener), fireball, scorch, DB, Scorch, fireblast, mob dies(if not, frostnova, distance, nuke).

However in pvp it works, but if I'm not critting or the player has ALOT of hp it doesnt always work, but I love DB hard.

DB also fucks up spellcasting/aimedshot too, me like

EDIT: I dont have ZHC, might help when/if I get it

Last edited by denatus (2006-12-20 13:48:39)

The Enigma Order

Announcement

#1 2006-12-14 15:18:51

Mage stunlock

#2 2006-12-14 15:40:26

Re: Mage stunlock

#3 2006-12-14 15:58:51

Re: Mage stunlock

holykami wrote:

#4 2006-12-14 16:36:17

Re: Mage stunlock

#5 2006-12-14 16:47:43

Re: Mage stunlock

Kelthalas wrote:

#6 2006-12-14 17:36:34

Re: Mage stunlock

#7 2006-12-14 17:51:18

Re: Mage stunlock

sweter wrote:

#8 2006-12-14 18:02:29

Re: Mage stunlock

Enimusha wrote:

#9 2006-12-14 18:03:57

Re: Mage stunlock

holykami wrote:

sweter wrote:

#10 2006-12-14 18:18:13

Re: Mage stunlock

sweter wrote:

holykami wrote:

sweter wrote:

#11 2006-12-14 20:02:51

Re: Mage stunlock

#12 2006-12-14 20:36:38

Re: Mage stunlock

Beardstorm wrote:

#13 2006-12-15 05:06:33

Re: Mage stunlock

#14 2006-12-15 20:41:45

Re: Mage stunlock

#15 2006-12-19 01:12:51

Re: Mage stunlock

#16 2006-12-20 13:38:22

Re: Mage stunlock

#17 2006-12-20 13:46:58

Re: Mage stunlock

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