The Enigma Order

Forum moderation course and common sense this way --->

The point of the topic and discussion is rather clear, and most participants agree on the major points, this generalizing and digression is just another "i don't really know what i'm rambling about, so i'll take the discussion that way!".

Chae

Wow something really important or terrible must had happened if Chaelot is back on our forums 1 thing only, cos I dont wanna fight with anyone again: if You wanna take burst damage from mages, then give us healing or more HP.

Amra, dont feel mad at us. I won't say it's only a game, because it's not only a game for anyone of us, but the fact is just that we love to deall massive damage and that's why we will always defend our right and ability to nuke hard. Cheers for You mate, pvp in this game is about raids and groups, and you know that when we team up, we're good. And that's the only thing I care about. Doesnt matter who dies first or who makes numbers big.

as a side note : i also like the vurtune videos

it simply just scares me how childish ppl have been in this discussion. when we're discussing like this, you should know that the only way to go is to be 100% subjective. the "objective" scene always ends up with ridicolous defensive crap, and it usually goes on forever till one of the parties is mature enough to just simply stfu.

norwegian: " norway pwns sweden lol"
swede: "sweden pwns norway lol"
norwegian: "norway has brunost lol"
swede: "sweden has saab lol"
norwegian: "norway pwns sweden on skiis"
swede: "sweden pwns norway in hockey"
norwegia: "oh yea? your mom is fat"
swede: "im rich ur poor, p00nd"
norwegian: "norway has oil so im techincally rich lol"
swede: "sweden has ikea stfu n00b"
and so on....

this is what this discussion has turned into.

i see alot of sense if what some people are saying, but when the class patriots make this into some class vs class discussion it just looses the point completely. it seems like ppl have become angry while posting replies etc, instead of being rational and figuring out the content of the former posts. many posts have been misunderstood and misfigured, and it has put some ppl in a bad light, and it seems like amra has been victimized to some point here. his words has systematically been twisted around, and hes even been acused of being a fantaic warrior patriot in a discussion about one-shoting (what it started out like atleast). Especially the way the lvl 70 gear post was closed where he was hung out to dry in the end.

ive been carefull with posting for this reason. will i be the next victim? will i be quoted out of content too? maybe someone will call me racistic towards swedes? i dont know, but i know one thing fosho

LERN2DISCUSSLIKEADULTS

kthxbye

jolt wrote:

i see alot of sense if what some people are saying, but when the class patriots make this into some class vs class discussion it just looses the point completely. it seems like ppl have become angry while posting replies etc, instead of being rational and figuring out the content of the former posts. many posts have been misunderstood and misfigured, and it has put some ppl in a bad light, and it seems like amra has been victimized to some point here. his words has systematically been twisted around, and hes even been acused of being a fantaic warrior patriot in a discussion about one-shoting (what it started out like atleast). Especially the way the lvl 70 gear post was closed where he was hung out to dry in the end.

Yes, if I'm responsible for the situation going out of control like this then I apologize, naturally.

sweter wrote:

Snoozo wrote:

But uhm. warriors/rogues/whatever didnt get more resistance did they ?

On the other hand, I remember the times when all warriors and rogues used to wear Tier 1/2 gear with FR enchants on, having +200 FR. Fire mages' life was a pain back then and Blizz realised that it wasn't a good choice.

BTW ever tried to duel a mage with full resistance set on? Frost, fire?

yes, and its boring 2tm. i'd never be using resistance gear in PvP anyway, not like i have bagspace for frost/fire/shadow res gear + pvp gear + tank gear u know ;\

+ i would have no use of wearing it in pvp anyway. 2 mages 1 fire 1 frost, what gear to use? id be useless against 1 of them anyway

Last edited by Snoozo (2007-01-02 15:01:35)

Obscure wrote:

use loeathebs reflection, snoozo. surely you must have looted that one?

hehe, i have that one. but 53 resistance dosnt do much ^^

I tried using it for quite a few battlegrounds, and never really felt a difference

Last edited by Snoozo (2007-01-02 15:39:10)

Yep, sadly it isnt easy to get resistance since our PvP gear is like Sta, Stre and Crit. no real defenses against our worst enemy's aka casters

Snoozo wrote:

All i can say is, blizzard made a "mistake" with leveling and gearing up.... Mages or any kind of clothie's armor goes UP, and they have the base 5% dodge.

But uhm. warriors/rogues/whatever didnt get more resistance did they ? mages etc usually atleast dodge 1 attack in duel/pvp when i attack them (unless its one of the crit heavy fights). if i get a resist in a duel/pvp on fireballs and stuff i giggle a little cause its so rare. seeing theyer cast time and my swing timer is the same (seeing im not in meele range when he casts) that dosnt seem fair either since they hit me harder then i hit them


i mean, everytime i see a magister geared mage i laugh and slap him in the face with a sick MS hit/crit. they are what i would call squishy, but take frostfire/enigma/pvp geared mage, thats a whole new situation.

You think you could beat Vurtne then? He's Magister equivalent geared

Nah, to the point, you make a point, but i think it's important to take the clothies in a bit of defense here as well, cause it is _very_ different when we get close (we as in warriors). We have, even with rage normalization, almost unlimited amount of resources to deal toe2toe frontload dmg when we get close (because of instant attacks, if the target is not shielded though).

I think in all honesty that i will kill a mage faster if i get to charge and use all my rage without him moving, than him just nuking from start to stop as well. Simply because of cast time.

That being said, the problem isn't dodgeing/resisting or anything like that, the problem is 100% to 0% in a matter of milliseconds, ie: those lucky mage crits.

Chae

Imo, remove AP,pom --> pyro thingy, perhaps move Pyroblast further down fire or something, so you cant have both AP and Pyro. I'm not sure how else to do it tbh. I'm full frost now, since I like the control it gives, it is also a very good 1on1 build against any class, just need to not play with 1shotting but more with what frost provides

I would want to see PoM be used for fight controll rather than burst, and by that i mean for example: You are fighting a rogue, and you want to keep a chill effect on him at all times, but he resist a frostbolt at a very inconvenient time. You PoM+Frostbolt just to regain instant controll of the fight, not to dish out instant amounts of dmg. By that, I think it's fair to take some +spelldmg away from PoM spells, but I guess that would not be happily accepted in the mage community.


Just from the top of my head, i am not even sure it's a good suggestion but it's the first one i can think of tbh...
Now about Pyroblast, i think this spell should be removed instead. It is just a pimped out Fireball which basically has no purpose other than acting as the "safer" choice against a sheeped target/un-aware target. Move Blast Wave up and put a new talent where Blast Wave is now, giving your blast wave an additional chance to stun the target (imp. impact-ish if you want).

In my opinion this would give the fire tree more of the lovely randomness it has (random dmg and random stuns etc.) and make fire mages concentrate on playing the game rather than figuring out how the macro system works.

Chae

One important point is that no matter if its only 50% damage, its still instant dmg more and it would still be used for dmgspells mostly. It is still on a 3 min cd and thus it feels like you want to use it to give that extra burst when you need it. One option imo would be to change it to instead be maybe even only 10% or some other ridiculously low amount but give it an even shorter cd, say, 1,5 minutes. That would make it a constant part of mage's "control" spells. I reckon most would start using it for instasheeping / -frostbolting (slowing) effect. And 1,5 min would mean once in a fight but almost constantly available. Though this change would also be considered a major nerf to the spell itself as it wouldn't be a huge dmg-possibility anymore. Atleast I would actually like this control-version of it. ^^