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#1 2008-01-30 12:12:28

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Curse of Recklessness

so, shadow disciples, do we (you) ever use Curse of Recklessnes on boss fights?

it's been way too long since I played a warlock, so can't remember anythign about it - is it something you'd never use, does it depand on the number of warlocks in raid, does it have some serious trade-off?

mainly got interested in it since I'm reading a bit about armor penetratiot and, all things concidered, the use (or lack of it) of CoR might be an important factor from that perspective.

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#2 2008-01-30 12:20:32

Enimusha
Officer
From: Oulu, Finland
Registered: 2005-08-17
Posts: 6038

Re: Curse of Recklessness

Wondering about this too, since CoR will boost melee dps alot, and it would be really sweet to see it in the raids.

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#3 2008-01-30 13:39:46

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: Curse of Recklessness

on a boss with 5x sunder armor, roughly 5% physical damage increase.

yes, physical, not melee.

gets even better with FF and armor penetration. interesting, seeing as physicall dmg classes tend to do an ok share of dmg.

Last edited by Lamme (2008-01-30 16:20:20)

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#4 2008-01-30 16:40:43

Beardstorm
Mahogany - Retired CL
From: London
Registered: 2005-07-23
Posts: 2241
Website

Re: Curse of Recklessness

It is a good DPS boost, but you really need to have Imp Demoshout (IMO) to make it worth using on non-farm content which afaik our tanks don't have / use, since people ask for CoW (weakness). Also I don't really think it's that good for progression unless the fight is a real DPS race (P3 vashj etc) or loaded with boss magic DPS (e.g. solarian) where it will be more worthwhile.

It's a huge increase with FF / sunder / executioner / armour penetration but we ideally want 3 warlocks in the raid which I haven't really seen since I started raiding again smile

CoS = boost to mana regen via shadow priest damage - Not used this much since we rarely bring s.priests.
CoE = obvious mage increase
CoR = obvious melee increase

edit: corrected typo

Last edited by Beardstorm (2008-01-31 19:08:07)


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#5 2008-01-30 17:04:02

Enimusha
Officer
From: Oulu, Finland
Registered: 2005-08-17
Posts: 6038

Re: Curse of Recklessness

Beardstorm wrote:

CoW = obvious melee increase

You mean obvious increase to tanks/healers?

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#6 2008-01-31 12:28:00

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: Curse of Recklessness

Sounds like some bla-bla to me, maybe you warlocks will work something out of it tongue

From elitistsjerks.

"I'm a Warlock, and with these armor values I've been able to exactly quantify casting Curse of Recklessness based on the raid makeup. To be more exact, I figured out how to rank the curses Shadow, Elements, and Recklessness according to damage contribution, by equating the curse to a percentage of a single person's DPS. Admittedly, this only begins to matter when you bring two or less Warlocks, but it's useful to know.

The value of Shadow is simply equal to 10 (or 13) times the number of Shadow/Arcane users in the raid. Likewise, Elements is 10 (or 13) times the elemental users. Recklessness is 5-6 times the number of physical damage dealers, considering Dayve's math:

If we assume now that the boss has SA stacked x5 on it, adding just FF gives a further 4.5%/4.05% increase, CoR gives 5.99%/5.38%, and with both on they give 11.06%/9.9% increase over just SA.

Take for example a raid of 4 Rogues, 2 DPS Warriors, 2 Hunters, 3 Warlocks, 1 Shadowpriest, 1 Arcane and 2 Fire mages, supported by 3 tanks and 7 healers. No warlock has Malediction.

Shadow is worth 40%. Elements is worth 20%. Recklessness is worth 40%. If one of the warlocks has to go, it's the Fire mages who are getting the shaft, curse-wise."

Last edited by Lamme (2008-01-31 12:28:35)

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#7 2008-01-31 12:44:15

Enimusha
Officer
From: Oulu, Finland
Registered: 2005-08-17
Posts: 6038

Re: Curse of Recklessness

We have atleast 2 melees at the top of the damage meters every raid. Perhaps we should try this out today in SSC? smile

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#8 2008-01-31 13:00:48

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: Curse of Recklessness

physical, not melee.
looking at our standard raid damage meters, it makes it even more interesting.

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#9 2008-01-31 13:41:08

Warsaw
Guild Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2007-03-24
Posts: 1287

Re: Curse of Recklessness

Gieb!


Btw is any rogue keeping expose armor on bosses? If not it would be nice to set one on that duty smile


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#10 2008-01-31 13:50:45

Enimusha
Officer
From: Oulu, Finland
Registered: 2005-08-17
Posts: 6038

Re: Curse of Recklessness

Expose armor doesn't stack with SA, afaik.

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#11 2008-01-31 14:13:12

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: Curse of Recklessness

Hmm, I guess this seems like the most appropriate thread. This is a potentially very silly question about Expose Armor.

Expose doesn't stack with Sunder, and Sunder can't be applied while EA is present. How does this interact with Devastate? If you put up a stack of 5 sunders, and then EA - does this prevent Devastate being used?

No. I suppose I'm talking out of my ass because I haven't actually tested this, but following the normal game rules, EA should overwrite the sunders, which causes Devastate to hit for less damage, therefore causing less threat. There's no reason currently that EA would make Devastate unusable

While Devastate will hit for less, other threat abilities will hit for slightly higher due to the drop in boss' AC. If threat is not an issue it might even be worth trying something like that to see how it plays out. However from the wroding in the changes being done to Devastate in the comming patch, it would seem that sunders will greatly increase its threat.

bit messy, I know, slightly busy atm and don't feel like editing the above tbh:D
edit: donno what devastate mechanics change the last person refers to.

Last edited by Lamme (2008-01-31 14:14:08)

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#12 2008-01-31 14:26:23

Enimusha
Officer
From: Oulu, Finland
Registered: 2005-08-17
Posts: 6038

Re: Curse of Recklessness

I'd say the gain from EA > SA is so slight, that even the rogues CP used to get EA up, will do more damage in a long run. Cant say for sure though, propably rogues could enlighten us in this matter?

Expose armor without talents: -2050 armor
Sunder armor: -2600 armor

Only talented Expose armor (2 talent poins, increases the effect by 50%: -3075 armor) will overwrite 5 stacks of sunder armor (only applies if sunders are on the target first). This leads to the question of how many of our rogues got Improved Expose armor?

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#13 2008-01-31 19:07:43

Beardstorm
Mahogany - Retired CL
From: London
Registered: 2005-07-23
Posts: 2241
Website

Re: Curse of Recklessness

We're missing the main point which is: Give a warrior with imp demo shout that can reliably keep it going (got no answer from that yet and from my experiences they dont like doing it)

And: is 5% dps (or whatever it is) worth increased chance of tank death and mana drain on healers? No demo shout can be bad because it is a very effective damage reduction tool (imp demo + CoR roughly breaks even i believe).

I personally dont see much problem with DPS when we have a strong raid going anyway and while increases are good, I'd rather have a 5% slower kill but no aggro pulling which we still have happen (without CoR). Vashj is the only real fight I can think of where huge DPS is a real necessity.

Last edited by Beardstorm (2008-01-31 19:26:37)


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#14 2008-01-31 19:15:28

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: Curse of Recklessness

Curse of Recklessness will boost physical damage output from bosses, as it increases attackpower by 135.

Demoshout reduces attackpower by 300 (420 if talented)
Curse of Weakness reduces attackpower by 350 (420 if talented lol)

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"offtopic"
Can devastate be used if expose armor is up on the mob, after the change to devastate ? (autoapply to sunder armor)
and even so, sunder armor is better if expose armor ain't talented.


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