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#1 2008-05-12 16:35:02

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

BM

Windir, it's now pretty obvious to me that your spec - BM - allows for more damage than MM the way I play it.

Could you write a few words about key points while playing as BM - what stats count the most, what is the rotation of choice etc.

Alternatively, can you link some nice guide or anything you find useful.

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#2 2008-05-12 16:54:23

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: BM

[Hunter] Beast Mastery Bible - Elitist Jerks:
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t11420-hunt … ery_bible/

Reaching the hit cap is advised, but not 100% needed. 130ish hitrating will do.
Haste: With passive haste effects your attackspeed should not come below 1.5sec when Aspect of the Hawk procs. Depending on your latency (and reactions lol) the ideal attack speed would be 1.8(less than 150ms) 1.9(150-200ish ms). Reaction time doesn't really matter, since you got a handy little macro that makes you more flexible. Alternative is to look at quartz timer instead of the encounter(s), I found the macro to be more useful tongue

Gear: hitrating 130-142, crit: people say around 28-30% before you start stacking ap/other stats(hit before crit tho).
I've got 26.6% crit, abit low, but t5 setbonus kinda makes up for it.

Shotrotation: even I use a macro, I still try to weave in Multishots/arcane shots if my mana allows me too. Cheeky's gave me a 1:1:5 rotation which means after every 5th steady, you either do a mutlishot or arcane shot, depending on which shot is on cooldown. (always use Mulit if its ready and there's no CC that can be broken)

And another keypoint is to keep your pet alive. Since it will do 20%++ of your damage. So a mend pet now and then (if you don't have 2 t5 bonus) can save your pet. (I often respec my pet to different instances, giving it more resistance to different schools of magic)
Avoidance, Cobra Reflexes, claw/gore as dmg skill, resistances and stamina.  I've read that others also use bite as dmg skill, but I found bite to fuck up alot with its 10sec cooldown.

I'll paste the macro I use later


Outside lies doom

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#3 2008-05-12 17:59:14

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: BM

how's your hit rating recalculated into pet's hit rating? Or rather - is hit rating more important as BM, than as other spec?
I'm full (or maybe - fool) MM and to my surprise pet still does 10% of total damage. While my miss rate is around 1% (in the long run), pet's around 10% and higer. Never realy bothered about that.

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#4 2008-05-12 18:08:54

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: BM

your hitrating won't help the pets hitrating. But Animal Handler talent gives your pet 4% extra hitchance.
Hitrating is probably the best dpsstat before the cap. If you can't hit, you can't crit either smile


Outside lies doom

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#5 2008-05-12 19:46:47

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: BM

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()


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#6 2008-05-12 19:58:13

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: BM

about the hit rating in general - it's important indeed, the question, however, is - where is the cap. Specifically I mean - is it optimal to reach cap against lvl 73 (boss) seeing as vast majority of the stuff we shoot at are non-bosses, aka lvl 71.
I myself am aiming right over 100.

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#7 2008-05-12 20:16:34

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: BM

142 is the cap against bosses (lvl 73), in the end, its bossfights that count the most

Not being capped might result in missed MD'd shots


Outside lies doom

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#8 2008-05-12 20:18:12

Apox
Founding Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 5353
Website

Re: BM

*waits for Palma's tips & tricks*


https://valid.x86.fr/cache/banner/q03263-2.png

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#9 2008-05-12 22:19:40

Beardstorm
Mahogany - Retired CL
From: London
Registered: 2005-07-23
Posts: 2241
Website

Re: BM

Drums of battle also own, if i remember right Windir is a fond user of them :>


Please donate to the "One shot Aya with a shield slam fund", all bits of metalz welcome.

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#10 2008-05-12 22:45:34

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: BM

yeap smile

time trinkets with Bestial wrath also


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#11 2008-05-13 15:34:42

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: BM

your build please, if followed by a brief manual, even better.

also, seeing as we are mainly into MH and BT atm, how does that affect your pet choice\skills choice etc?

I'm using my pet marely as a thing that looks good. I mean, ye, I try to keep it alive and in combat, but witout making a big fuzz about it. never really thought if I was able to 'reconfigure' it to suit specific instance better.

Last edited by Lamme (2008-05-13 15:37:13)

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#12 2008-05-14 07:13:54

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: BM

For MH, I spec my pet with rank 2 avoidance, cobra reflexes, gore/claw (screech for iWipe), max fire res. rank 2nature, rank 2 shadow, rest on stamina.

For BT I spec rank 2 avoidance, cobra reflexes, gore/claw (screech for iWipe), rank 3 or 4frost res. rank 3 fire, rank 2 shadow, rest for stamina

Keytalents you need: 
5/5 Improved Aspect of the Hawk   | Depends on your attackspeed, but 5/5 improved my dps atleast
2/2 Focus Fire          |  2% extra damage when your pet is out, and extra crit on kill command is always nice
2/2 Improved Revive Pet  | if your pet dies early in a fight its important to get it up as fast as possible imo
5/5 Ferocity
4/5 Frenzy (cant find any point to lose really to max it)
2/2 Bestial Discipline
2/2 Animal Handler   | Pets have a high missrate
3/3 Serpents Swiftness  | Faster attackspeed, no-brainer tongue
1/1 Bestial Wrath  (1/1 Intimidation, 1/1 The Beast Within) | Combine with trinket(s) increases both your and your pets dps
(rest is "free" points)

Marksman Tree:
5/5 Lethal Shots
5/5 Efficiency (or Huntersmark if your mana ain't an issue)
2/2 GFTT   | Best way to regen focus for your pet
1/1 Aimed Shot (need it for Mortal Shots)
2/2 Rapid Killing

My Build atm
I might change a point in Endurance Training and put it in Improved Mend Pet.


Outside lies doom

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#13 2008-05-14 12:13:56

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: BM

ok, so I ain't a total noob after all - had pretty much all these in my 'random clicking' build:D.

I understand you're taking ravager over cat due to gore, right? Ever considered what skills you'd use for your pet, had in been a cat? Claw\bite? I'm reading that bite really shines in long fights (though, again, I'm not so good when it comes to 'speccing' pets).

Important question (didn't have time to test yet) - I've read a bunch of guides yesterday and found some contradictory information. One guide claimed pets pets only benefit from hunter's agility, another that they benefit only from hunter's ap, while few others - both. How is it in real?

Yet another - about crit rate. I'm aiming at enough crit to keep Ferocious Inspiration up at all times, right? Ofc, the more the better, but there are other important stats to cover.

The final one (bit more complicated) - excluding all the proc effects affecting haste - you wrote that your rotation would be 1:1:5. I can't figure why it would be like that. The way I see things, squeezing arcane shot\multishot every time it's ready and using it does not affect autoshot\steady shot rotation should be ok. Does the 1:1:5 thing you mentioned means that the sheet tells you you'll be able to use arcane\multi after every 5th steady without affecting the rotation?
Ye, this question is more complicated.

I'll most probably add some mroe question in the near future.

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#14 2008-05-14 13:47:16

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: BM

oh yes I will - again found contradictory info - armor penetration of a hunter does not affect pet, right'o?

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#15 2008-05-14 17:20:48

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: BM

Ravager and cats are almost the same when it comes to dps. Gore might be slightly better than claw, but do not take bite as a damage skill, for pvp it might be better, but the 10sec cooldown will be more of a dps slow-down, than gain.

The best pet you can get is a Wind Serpent with Lightning Bolt, but then you will need around 32% crit unbuffed.

About the 1:1:5 rotation, I find it hard to monitor how many steady's I shoot, so I basically let a multi go off whenever its off cooldown. Arcane Shot usually only if there's something to dispell since it costs too much mana (at trash atleast).
Even if I use the macro, I still use quartz to monitor the autoshot release, that way you "know" where to fit in Multishot / arcaneshot.

Your pet will not benefit from your agi/crit-/hit rating. Only Armor, Attackpower and resistances. And I'm pretty sure they don't benefit from your Armor penetration either.

Kill Command is probably the best skill to keep Ferocious Inspiration up, since your pet will have around 15-20% base crit and kill command adds 20%. Thats why the Beasttamer Shoulders are probably the best shoulders for a Beastmaster. They have alot of agi and attackpower, and adds extra crit and damage to your pet, which is also important for your dps in most fights.


Outside lies doom

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#16 2008-05-14 17:48:48

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: BM

so from your personal experience - seeing as there's a 'need' for hunter crits on one end and the fact that the pet only benefits from ap - agility remains the stat of choice, aye (excluding hit for obvious reasons)?

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#17 2008-05-14 17:51:05

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: BM

agi is tha shit yes smile


Outside lies doom

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#18 2008-05-15 11:57:05

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: BM

Tested the macro you posted a bit. From some brief tests it feels like the key to using it properly is to stay cool - despite the increased attack speed there's still a fair amount of time between the attack, but - usually - not enough to squeeze an arcane\multi in the meanwhile. Having same experience?

And one more question - while using that very same macro, are you having any problems with kill command being used properly? I had to use it manually, despite hitting the macro button for a steady shot.

One last (I'll test most of the stuff I'm asking myself over the weekend orso, just having very limited time currently) - it's obvious that using Beast Within and trinket together is wise. I'm not so sure about adding rapid fire though? Gotta work aroound the attack speed some more in general.

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#19 2008-05-16 12:00:49

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: BM

ey Windir, I'm looking at WoW web stats from yesterday's BT -

How the hell did you manage to queeze out more damage out of steady shot than autoshot?? And I mean 6% more! I see it did exactly same damage as autoshot on each hit on avarage, but you used it moer often. Why\how so, makes me think I'm totally missing something here!

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#20 2008-05-16 17:37:03

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: BM

I think its a combination of the macro (I don't think I'm doing 1:1:5, but closer to 3:2  (3steadys, 2 autos)) and "too many" hasted attacks.
I noticed on Akama yesterday, where I got 0.69 Attackspeed I clipped alot of autoshots when I tried to do steady's, so I just went auto/arcane/multi.


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#21 2008-05-23 15:14:33

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: BM

so I'm trying BM a bit now, not quite as much as I'd like due to the raiding and activiy problem, but just thought I ought to add one thing in case someone considers it but has the same doubts I had -
BM is not for braindead hunters, it's not about destroying the sole key you have your macro bound to. It sure is easier to play and do ok damage than MM, but there's a lot to do to really use the whole potential.
Plus, it gives more damage, I know I used 95% potential my gear and spec had to offer while I was MM; now I'm still learning, there's a lot fo details still not covered, yet I'm already doing better thna I'd be able as MM.

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