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#1 2010-10-14 11:00:09

johnreaper
Rogue Class Leader
Registered: 2009-11-29
Posts: 307

yeah baby yeah..

well ive been trying mute yesterday and it looks very promissing, allthough FoK is allmost bye bye..sad
eventhough we can put poisions on ranged now..( inst. since it has a high proc rate )
and ofc regemming all

red= agi
blue= agi / hit
yellow = agi /haste

stats as mute :

1. agi   
2. haste
3. mastery
4. crit

ofc it is a must first to get exertice cap and hit capped ( poisioned ) and there are no cap for agi/haste/mastery ( 100% )

Special Attacks: 8% Hit - Precision (6%) = 2% Hit.
2% Hit = 2 x 30.76 = 61.52 Hit Rating
Poison Procs: 17% Hit - Precision (6%) = 11% Hit.
11% Hit = 11 x 26.23 = 288.53 Hit Rating
Auto Attacks: 27% Hit - Precision (6%) = 21% Hit.
21% Hit = 21 x 30.76 = 645.96 Hit Rating.

Rotations.. garotte-mute4+ combo´s-SaD-mute4+RuP.

keep SaD up with envenom and RuP up to.

I use this new ablillity Vandetta as ofent as possible. but REWALLY sick to save CB and VEN til hero is given... SICK DPS.

I think that overall mute look´s very good but take alook at spec and let me know what you think. And if you have some updates

And if you would be so kind to give some feedback on combat and subli.

JR.

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#2 2010-10-14 12:35:42

Moranu
Guild Member
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2009-08-02
Posts: 187

Re: yeah baby yeah..

I'lll post my findings after tonight's raid. Can't really test sub without a raid. Combat so far on dummies seems really shit. No eviscerate anymore, can barely keep up SnD + Rupture hmm

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#3 2010-10-14 12:57:40

Lydo
Guild Member
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 1966

Re: yeah baby yeah..

I'm going to try all the trees starting with combat aswell smile

But as far as I understood with muti its supposed to spam backstab under 35% or was it 30% because of the talent that reduces the energy cost?

Last edited by Lydo (2010-10-14 12:59:31)

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#4 2010-10-14 13:45:23

Daggor
Guild Member
Registered: 2010-07-18
Posts: 117

Re: yeah baby yeah..

My DPS on hc dummie is arounf 5-6k (combat - no regemming nor enchants). Really shitty. All Iv read on Combat spec is that it is awefull. Big QQ from me.

This is my findings from wow forums/EJ/random boards:

Part 1: Rogue Specs.



Quick Spec Rundown

A more detailed Assassination guide can be found here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa … &sid=1

Mut: Good. http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fcIfzsMdoGo0bZ0h (Deadly Brew as Filler, Quickening as Filler)
Combat: Bad. http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0bZcGfcocbRGo0h (Blade Twisting as Filler, Improved Sprint as filler)
Sub: Bugged but potentially Best. http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#f0hZ0bZcGcsdu0RGo (Initiative as Filler, Still determining whether Lethality is better than Coup De Grace) HAT and Hemo Bleed is currently bugged but should be fixed by 14/10/10

Also still determining if 3/3 Precision 2/3 Lethality is better/worse than 2/3, 3/3. If you're having difficulty getting hit cap go 3/3 Precision.

Glyphs:

Mut: Mutilate/Backstab/Rupture, Sprint/Anything/Anything, Safefall/Anything/Anything
Combat: Sinister Strike/Adrenaline Rush/Rupture, Sprint/Blade Flurry/Anything, Safefall/Anything/Anything
Sub: Backstab/Evis/Hemo, Sprint/Prep/Anything, Safefall/Anything/Anything

Weapons
Mut:1.8/1.4 Dagger/Dagger, IP/DP
Combat: 2.6/1.4 Sword or Mace or Axe or Fist/Dagger, 4k+GS IP/DP <4KGS WP/DP. A 1.5 second Offhand is better than a 1.4 IF it is 1 or more ilvl tier/s higher.
Sub: 1.8/1.4 Dagger/Dagger, IP/DP. A 1.5 second Offhand is better than a 1.4 IF it is 1 or more ilvl tier/s higher.

Rotations:

Mut: (Leaving Stealth) Garotte, Slice and Dice. (In combat) 4+ Mutilate, Envenom, 4+ Mutilate, Rupture. Maintain Rupture refreshing at less than 8 seconds remaining. In between ruptures there SHOULD be 2 4+ Mutilate, Envenom cycles, if you get lucky with Energy gain possibly 3.
Sub 35% Maintain Rupture with 4+ Backstabs, 4+ Backstab, Envenom (There should be 4-5 envenom cycles between rupture cycles).

Combat: High Rupture Cycle. Use RvS when SS takes you to 4 Combo Points ONLY and ONLY for Eviscerate or Rupture (it doesn't affect SnD or Kidney Shot). Maintain SnD.

Sub: (In stealth) Premeditation, Recuperate. (Leaving Stealth) Garrote, Hemo, Backstab, Slice and Dice, Backstab 5xRupture (In combat) Maintain Hemorrhage, maintain SnD and Recuperate with 5cp, 5cp Eviscerates when not refreshing SnD or Recuperate (Eviscerate will refresh rupture). Backstab should be used as CP generator UNLESS Hemorrhage is not applied on your target. Vanish on cooldown and replace 2-3 Backstabs with 1 Ambush. (During Shadow Dance) Ambush, Allow energy to pool while HAT adds Combo Points, Use 5xFinisher depending on what is needed. Repeat until Sdance fades.



Part 2: Caps and Stats!



Hit (Hard) Cap (Altered by Precision):
3/3 precision:646
2/3 precision:707
1/3 precision:769
0/3 precision:830

Hit (Soft) Cap (Altered by Precision):
3/3: 289
2/3: 342
1/3: 394
0/3: 446

Expertise Cap: 200 (177 for gnomes)

Haste caps at ~2300 rating and is the best stat behind Agility, Spell hit and Expertise since it now effects energy regen.

EP Values:
Stat Assass. Combat
Agi 2.8 2.88
Crit 1.4 1.62
Spell Hit 3.1 2.38
White Hit 1.7 1.69
Expertise 2.6 2.20
Haste 2.2 2.25
Mastery 1.7 0.60

Sub's not been done yet but Agi>Spell Hit>Expertise>Haste and then it's either White hit or Mastery.



Part 3: Gems, Enchants and Reforging!



Enchants:
Follow EP Table above for Armor enchantments.
Weapons should be enchanted with Mongoose/Mongoose regardless of spec.
Engineering item enhancements are no longer enchants and are IN ADDITION TO rather than instead of normal item enchants.

Gems:
Red: Agility
Blue: Agility/Hit
Yellow: Agility/Haste
Meta: 21 Agility & 3% Increased Critical Strike Damage

Subtlety: Gem for Meta (relentless) and then gem all 20 agility unless you must only replace one socket in which case if blue bonus must be 8agi if yellow bonus must be 6 agi.

Only gem for socket bonuses if they give:
4+ agility while there is only 1 non-red socket.
6+ agility while there are 2 non-red sockets and at least one is yellow and any additional sockets are red.
8+ agility while there are 2 blue sockets and there is an additional socket and it is red.
8+ agility while there are 3 yellow sockets.
Otherwise go full 20 agi.

Reforging:

Before reforging configure your gems as above.
Following this Reforge crit into Expertise on items that ALREADY HAVE HASTE until you reach the cap.
Do the same with Hit.
Now, you will probably have Soft cap for hit and exp cap and still have a few Crit/Haste items already lying around, turn as much of the crit on those items into hit/mastery depending on spec and preferences.
On items with crit but not haste turn Crit INTO haste (this will largely be your trinkets and the odd bit of gear with Crit/Exp or Crit/Hit)

Mastery is USELESS for Combat, EQUAL to hit as Assassination and POSSIBLY better as Subtlety spec (impossible to determine until HAT is fixed)

Reasoning Behind Reforging:

You cannot reforge a stat on an item if the stat you want to forge it to already exists. Haste is the best stat that can be reforged aside from Spell Hit (which is easy to cap) and Crit is the worst stat which can be reforged.

Therefore you want to maximise the amount of Crit that is turned into useful stats. If an item already has Haste (in additon to that icky crit) you want to change that crit into Spell Hit since it can't be made into Haste.

There is no point wasting the crit (on an item with just crit) on reforging it into Spell hit (which although it has higher EP is easy to cap) when it could be better used on haste since haste is far harder to obtain than hit.



Part 4: Items.



Your best bet at the moment is to use whatever item has the most Agility and Haste for that slot.

HWT is right up there for all specs at the moment, DV/DC is also suprisingly powerful now.



Part 5: FAQ

Q. What's up with poisons? A. They're Working as Intended as far as anyone knows, they now scale with player level and can still be bought from poison vendors.
Q. What's up with glyphs? A. You now only need to buy a glyph once to use it. To replace glyphs you've already learned you need to buy Vanishing powder from the Inscription vendor


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#5 2010-10-14 18:06:39

Lydo
Guild Member
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 1966

Re: yeah baby yeah..

Nice post Daggor smile

The sub rotation looked a bit odd at first glance when you start with only 2 point recuperate but maybe the CP generation is fast enough to allow it.

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#6 2010-10-15 00:22:09

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: yeah baby yeah..

Yeah baby yeah? big_smile

Hunters and rogues seam to share energy and not-so-good (red: downright bad) condition. No worries, we'll get them soon enough.

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#7 2010-10-15 05:03:23

Apox
Founding Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 5353
Website

Re: yeah baby yeah..

Feral cat too, although it looks way better than last night tongue


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#8 2010-10-15 10:22:48

Lydo
Guild Member
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 1966

Re: yeah baby yeah..

Everyone is saying combat is bad atm and that it prolly is, so I'll just focus on testing sub next then smile

My mutilate dps was like 7,5k in voa yesterday but with baaad gemming. Could perhaps get to 8k with proper gems and enchants.

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#9 2010-10-15 12:12:03

Moranu
Guild Member
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2009-08-02
Posts: 187

Re: yeah baby yeah..

Don't bother with Sub just yet. It's reaaally bugged. If anyone crits a target that you're not targeting, you'll lose the CP to that other person's target. I also kept getting 5 combo points last night. I didn't even have to backstab or anything, I could just spam finishers hmm

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#10 2010-10-15 13:19:11

Daggor
Guild Member
Registered: 2010-07-18
Posts: 117

Re: yeah baby yeah..

I think combat spec will improve as you lvl towards lvl85.
Good thing that we got dual spec. Allso our raids needs the combat spec buff 'Savage Combat'

Last edited by Daggor (2010-10-15 13:19:47)


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#11 2010-10-15 14:24:40

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: yeah baby yeah..

As for the raid buffs - no need to be worried about these anymore. Hunters can cover pretty much every odd missing buff with little personal loss.

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#12 2010-10-22 12:46:40

Lydo
Guild Member
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 1966

Re: yeah baby yeah..

What spec will you rogues choose for leveling? or gear?

I planned to level as subtlety with full lvl 80 pvp gear smile and have another spec for instances, mutilate for that matter.

Last edited by Lydo (2010-10-22 12:47:39)

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#13 2010-10-22 15:25:56

johnreaper
Rogue Class Leader
Registered: 2009-11-29
Posts: 307

Re: yeah baby yeah..

yeah same lydo... allthough ill be making a 5 man gr and lvl though inst. its very fast and gives good loot / Gold and you get to know the macannics well.

JR

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#14 2010-10-22 19:50:49

Daggor
Guild Member
Registered: 2010-07-18
Posts: 117

Re: yeah baby yeah..

johnreaper wrote:

yeah same lydo... allthough ill be making a 5 man gr and lvl though inst. its very fast and gives good loot / Gold and you get to know the macannics well.

JR

INV!!1


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#15 2010-10-22 21:00:07

Lydo
Guild Member
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 1966

Re: yeah baby yeah..

johnreaper wrote:

yeah same lydo... allthough ill be making a 5 man gr and lvl though inst. its very fast and gives good loot / Gold and you get to know the macannics well.

JR

Are you certain its more fast?

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#16 2010-10-22 21:40:56

Moranu
Guild Member
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2009-08-02
Posts: 187

Re: yeah baby yeah..

I'm probably going to level as muti, since it's annoying to get behind mobs all the time in order to backstab. I'm just going to quest my way through. Not sure yet which character first, but I'm going to enjoy all of the new content. So no hurry from my side!

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#17 2010-10-22 22:55:37

Lydo
Guild Member
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 1966

Re: yeah baby yeah..

Moranu wrote:

I'm probably going to level as muti, since it's annoying to get behind mobs all the time in order to backstab. I'm just going to quest my way through. Not sure yet which character first, but I'm going to enjoy all of the new content. So no hurry from my side!

No backstab, hemo!

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#18 2010-10-24 08:27:21

johnreaper
Rogue Class Leader
Registered: 2009-11-29
Posts: 307

Re: yeah baby yeah..

not sure its absolutly faster to lvl that way, but it gives experince from inst. and its gives guild points so overall i think this will be the way t go and yeah en spec sub, for non inst lvl, and mute for inst thats is what ill be goin with.

sub for inproved recup. should be nice for lvl.

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#19 2010-10-24 20:08:40

Lydo
Guild Member
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 1966

Re: yeah baby yeah..

johnreaper wrote:

not sure its absolutly faster to lvl that way, but it gives experince from inst. and its gives guild points so overall i think this will be the way t go and yeah en spec sub, for non inst lvl, and mute for inst thats is what ill be goin with.

sub for inproved recup. should be nice for lvl.

what i've heard people doing in beta as sub they just jump from mob to mob non-stop and kill stuff without the need to recover big_smile

guild points are also gained from quests afaik.

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