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#1 2011-01-27 23:48:19

Obscure
Founding Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2005-07-23
Posts: 6853

Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

The 5 best raid instances

World of Warcraft is not only about raiding, but it’s a damn important part of the game. Raiding is where it happens, when you have reached max level, are finished with all the dungeons, and want a greater challenge. Not only are the bosses harder, with more complex tactics than in the 5-man instances, there’s also the factor of a bigger group of players that has to co-operate, and play their best. We love them, either for their epic boss fights, the fat loot, the lore, good graphics, or simply something intangible.

This is probably a bit less comedic than the last two lists, but like the previous chapters, it’s really more about re-visiting memories and looking at the game’s rich history than it is about what is best or worst.

I will start with giving an honorable mention to Molten Core for the simple reason that it was the first. And it will always be held in high regard by most players, specially those who went there back in 2005. Why isn’t MC on the list, you ask? Well, admittedly if I ever make a top list of raid bosses, Ragnaros is a contender for the top spot. But apart from that, the bosses are kinda lame. The serpents are identical in looks, and the tactics are obviously as simple as they get. The environment is... well it looks like it should, it looks like the inside of a volcano. And it’s boring.
And it’s still one of my favorite instances.

But let us start with the actual list...


5. Naxxramas

http://i.imgur.com/Q6sRZ.jpg

Naxxramas was released 6 months too late. Most guilds were not nearly done in Temple of Ahn’Qiraj, and even less had the chance of conquering this instance before The Burning Crusade hit. And this was a tragedy on so many levels. Because not only did it feel like a wasted effort from Blizzard, but the players also missed out on some of the most memorable gaming moments in the WoW. Now, at this point I can already see you clenching your fists. But it doesn’t matter. When Blizzard got around to re-releasing Naxxramas, it was already too late. And in the fashion it was done, most players who had simply set their foot inside old Naxx were just left with a bad taste in their fictional mouths. Naxx 25 was just a poor man’s copy of Naxx 40.

What made Naxxramas so amazing was first and foremost the general feeling of it. It just felt like something incredibly important. You had a giant invasion before hand, skeletons popping up everywhere. A faction that you hadn’t given the slightest consideration before was now suddenly not only relevant, but required for entrance. Lore that fit perfectly with several story lines you already had played. Yes, Naxxramas was epic stuff even before we entered.
Then there was the mater of it’s layout. The instance wasn’t linear. Now, we saw quite a bit of this in TBC, but up until this point, all our instances had a certain path you could follow. Yes, there were optional bosses in AQ40, and yes, you didn’t have to take bosses in the same order in AQ20 and ZG. But with Naxx we had a choice which wing to start with, and each wing almost felt like an instance on it’s own. This was new and refreshing. But the brilliance of Naxx didn’t stop at the layout.
And after dealing with dragons, elementals and yuck.. bugs, a huge variety of undead mobs and bosses was in fact, refreshing. The likes of Grobbulus and Thaddius were fascinating to say the least. And hot damn did they drop great loot. Not surprisingly was it the best that dropped in vanilla wow, but the difference between AQ40 and Naxx was staggering. I’ll not go into the armor sets, as I’ll cover those in the near future. Instead I’ll linger a bit on the weapons. Might of Menethil and the previously mentioned Corrupted Ashbringer were perhaps the two most memorable. These were the kind of weapons that would grant you server fame. And they were just epics! I can also mention delightful looks of Grand Widow’s weapons: The Widow’s Embrace and Widow’s Remorse. And ask any oldschool rogue about a certain Kingsfall... On top of this you had the first caster legendary, which also was given consideration in my first list.
Oh, did I mention the music? Yes, some of us play with ingame music, and is rewarded for it. The music in Naxxramas was unbelievably good.

I hold Naxx in high regard, but it was just the wrong time. They should have released this instead of AQ, and just never bothered with the bugs at all. But hey, at least we got to play through it in wotlk. Over and over and over... Yup, Naxx could have topped this list if things had happened slightly different. But as it stands, Naxxramas was not a better instance than...


4. Icecrown Citadel

http://i.imgur.com/M3YPP.jpg

I played through this instance once, 10 man easy mode. I’m glad I did. You see, I dropped the game when Blizzard failed to release content after Naxx. I got bored. But I returned in late WotLK. I had to see Icecrown Citadel from the inside. It’s not like the instance was any better than a lot of the instances from my days as active raider. In fact if you compare ICC gameplay and instance design, it’s really not better than let’s say Serpentshrine Caverns or Mount Hyjal.

But there was something special with the way Icecrown Citadel was presented. You first saw Arthas/Lich King very early in the expansion, specially if you played Howling Fjords, but he popped up regularly as you leveled. It escalated through out Wrath... With a natural progression from entering Icecrown, to maintaining control over the area, defeating minions, and finally breaking into the citadel. Not only did it feel like the entire expansion had led to this point, it felt like the entire bloody game had been a preparation for the encounter with the Lich King.
If you also include some amazingly fun fights – like the gunship event and Dreamwalker, great music, and one of the most epic ingame cut scenes in the game, well... it should come as no surprise to anyone that ICC deserves a spot on the list.

Four different versions of ICC diminishes the general expression you’re left with. Obviously I see the need for 25 and 10 man versions, and I see the need for hard mode. But personally, I think it would have been better if there was just one version of Icecrown Citadel, and maybe at a difficulty somewhere between normal and hard mode.


3. Black Temple

http://i.imgur.com/Pu68b.jpg

Black Temple was the equivalent of Icecrown Citadel in The Burning Crusade. The first video we saw was Illidan being his gloomy self, and the entire expansion was about Illidan and all the things he had done. Basically, this was it, the moment we had been playing towards. And wow!, Black Temple did not disappoint. I’ll get in to more relevant reasons soon, but I’d like to start off with the difficulty level. Yes, I see the reason for both 10/25 versions and hard modes. But with Black Temple, Blizzard showed they could make a fantastic instance that was incredibly hard, but not to the point where only a handful would ever clear it (like hard mode Arthas). And the encounters were of the nature that single players could have bad luck, but it was still possible to do it. I’ve never been a fan of that ”oh shit we’re wiping because someone had a +120 str gem instead of a +140 one”. The margins were not ridiculous, like some of the encounters in hard modes, but it was still a real challenge all over.

The timing was also great, they released BT in the middle of the expansion, and not at the very end. Sunwell was perfect for such an instance, not really a big deal, just a cool instance (cue rant from people that will claim Kil’Jaeden matters. I care). So most guilds had time to at least try their luck in BT. And that was good. The ones in the small guilds should get to see the big stuff too.
Now back to the specifics of the instance. It actually feels a lot like Blackwing Lair in layout, only infinitely better. There’s great variation, you start in the sewer, you go outside in the courtyard, you go to the basement, you go to the terrace, you go to the roof.

We got the biggest boss in the game so far in Supremus, the weirdest in Reliquary of Souls, the most bad ass boss in Teron Gorefiend, and uhm.. the hottest in Mother Sharaz. And of course Illidan, which was incredible in every way. The voice, the look, the moves, the death, the loot.
Oh yeah the loot.. is there any boss in the game with a cooler loot table than Illidan? Unlikely. Tier 6 is a chapter for itself, and Illidan drops the chest token. Now take a look at this...: The staff (ugly, but still amazingly cool), the shield (god damn riot shield with spikes), the bow (that almost looks like it could work), the healing mace (ugly, but sweet stats). Lore items like Skull of Gul’dan and various nelf items. The absolute coolest headpiece ever (well next to First Mate Hat). And on top of this, he can drop not one, but two legendary items! It’s breath taking.


2. Zul’Gurub

http://i.imgur.com/dpLDS.jpg

This instance is sadly no longer in the game. Here’s to hoping they bring it back in some form. You see, Zul’Gurub was freedom in raid form after the gigantic prisons that were Molten Core and Blackwing Lair. It was everything the big two weren’t. No forced route, in fact I’m pretty sure you can go straight to the last boss. Optional bosses, what do you know? Imagine MC where you could skip Magmadar! Or BWL where you could skip depression room. You could mount! It had a 3 day reset, making it easily farmable And you almost had to farm it, there was just so much good to get out of it. In addition to some great weapons and armors, you had drops that were just for fun, like mounts and pets. You could even loot a spell (Polymorph: Turtle). And finally, humanoid mobs. A lot of humanoid mobs. 
All this made ZG feel like such an enjoyable instance, almost relaxing.

But the very thing that makes ZG reach this far is that it represented the first shift away from the 40-man raids. Two more 40-man raids were still to come, but the reception Blizzard got from Zul’Gurub was unmistakable. The gigantic raids were a dying species.



And the best raid instance in the game is...


...


http://i.imgur.com/F3fv8.jpg

1. Karazhan

Where do I begin? Karazhan was the perfect instance, it had literally everything a good instance should have. You see all the stuff I mentioned with Zul’Gurub? Yeah, Karazhan had all that. And more.

I’d like to begin with the general mood in the instance. This place felt like it was an actual building that had been trapped in some sort of magic dimension for years. Everything inside the instance made sense. You had the stables with a stable master, with a critter-infested cellar below. You had a ball room with people dancing, you had a steward that hosted dinner, there was even a kitchen, with skeleton waiters. You had the sleeping quarters with the obvious concubines and temptresses. And it goes on and on, from the theater to the balcony. Onwards to the library with the lootable books, to the observatory with the magic dragon, the hidden door that lead to the crazy demon, to the gaming room with the giant chess pieces. And finally to the spire where reality has ruptured, and the true villain is revealed. It all makes sense. The individual parts of the instance makes sense. The mobs and the bosses makes sense.

The fantastic mood in the instance is increased tenfolds by incredible music, and if you start to look around at all the details in the instance, you just feel for this place, in a tragic, but also entertaining way.
Some of the boss fights completely blew our minds, they were just that much more different than anything we’d tried. The theater event and the chess game comes to mind, but most of the fights in Karazhan are a pure joy. All those tiny details you probably not realize at the time, like the fact that almost all bosses has a voice, or that the quest chain takes you deeper and deeper into the mystery of what has happened to this place.

I feel it’s almost redundant to talk about loot at this point, yes there were great items to be had in Kara. But even if the only items that dropped were Twill hats and linen cloth, there would still be many enough reasons to enjoy this instance. And that’s why Karazhan is the best instance in World of Warcraft.

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#2 2011-01-28 00:17:00

Solok
Guild Member
From: Behind my Computer
Registered: 2005-08-20
Posts: 1102

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Great read and i agree with Karazhan being the best raid ever it was just so much fun!
Though shade of Aran could be a bitch i still remember his manical shouting and love him for it big_smile.

And it makes me think and remember that the old 40man raids MC/BWL really only had a couple of great bosses which made me regard those instances as awesome,
thinking of ragna/vael/nef.

Anyhow great article keep it up!


"Like a gnome at a urinal I had to keep on my toes"

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#3 2011-01-28 00:55:19

Tully
Guild Member
From: Elverum, Norway
Registered: 2005-08-01
Posts: 984

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Since you honorably mention Molten Core the way you do, I totally agree about Karazhan getting the first place. The others are also rightfully placed I think. I've never been inside ICC, but since it's the citadel of one of the most important characters in Warcraft I assume that it's well designed and all.
And yeah, the original Naxxramas certainly had an epic feel when it came out, it was just something huge and awesome(in the true sense of the word wink ).
It was also really really cool when the AQ instances were released, with all the hype leading up to it and all that came with that, but it was somehow a little bit of a let down even though many encounters were pretty cool. Like the twins for instance.

Anyway, good job indeed! Keep it up! smile

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#4 2011-01-28 01:22:15

Bols
Guild Friend
From: Bergen, Norge
Registered: 2008-03-07
Posts: 441

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Kara was actually the first raid instance i entered, and what got me into raiding in the first place. It's 10man, it has a lot of bosses, and clearing it was alot about skill and knowing tactics, and some of the most memorable strange bossfights. But for me its still a close 2nd after ZA. ZA was just amazing, and training for and eventually managing the timed event is the most fun i've had raiding. I also remember the joy when i finally got the amani bear the last reset before they removed it.

Nice job again Obs smile


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#5 2011-01-28 09:40:46

Mox
Officer
From: Norway - Oslo
Registered: 2007-09-03
Posts: 1493

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Nice compilation Obscure.

I think I had to do Karazhan twice. As in learn it with a new guild all over again. The Curator was a particulary pesty oponent and I always died while being chained by Terestian Illhoof. One of my favorite bosses must be Shade of Aran.

I weren't a lot in old Naxxramas, but I have some good memories of being one of the main tanks on Instructor Razuvious. Mind Control magic smile

It was indeed possible to go straight for Hakkar in Zul'Gurub, but there was a catch. If you didn't kill his priests first he would be a lot stronger.


Retired Priest master.

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#6 2011-01-28 09:55:45

ensiferrum
Uncertified member
Registered: 2010-06-17
Posts: 566

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

i loved morose, he had so nice speech big_smile

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#7 2011-01-28 11:59:26

Draken
Guild Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2005-08-17
Posts: 1912

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

In theory, you could go for almost any boss in MC as well, it just didn't make sense, because of all the trash you had to kill. You could go for garr or geddon and skip the ones before them, and then go back and kill them later. There was no invisible walls hindering you from not doing it, the main reason was all the trash, and possibly because you needed to kill them anyways to spawn majordomo and thus ragnaros.


"You called down the thunder, now reap the whirlwind!"

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#8 2011-01-28 16:39:16

Fairmont
Guild Member
From: The Netherlands
Registered: 2009-09-07
Posts: 560
Website

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Karazhan deserves the number uno for sure smile That place had everything, so well designed! And will always remember that famous boss quote "You face not Malchezaar alone, but the legions I command!" And so many more of them. Just epic.

I did like the design(!) and boss mechanics in SSC one hell of alot, so I'm missing that one on the list personally.

ICC and ZG I didn't like as much as you did. ICC had some very cool, good and refreshing boss mechanics and most fights were fun, but the lazy hardmodes and zonebuff screwed it up and next to that I think the design was just okay-ish. Must say I really liked certain bossfights though, Professor and LK especially.

ZG I don't have anything special with at all, but you have a good point about the new raid size there but it is far from my top 5.

I'd also put Ulduar in the top 5 personally, that one had no artificial hardmodes but real ones that changed the fight and added boss abilities very often. And I also liked the design alot and just had some awesome fights like Mimiron!

At the end it's all subjective obviously. I think it's good that you mentioned MC and why you didn't put it in the top 5. Just like BWL I agree with you that it holds great memories from vanilla, but the place itself was rather boring. The fights were very similiar most of the time, with few exceptions. Nefarian was pretty epic then again tbh smile

And once again, nicely written Obscure!

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#9 2011-01-28 17:40:55

Obscure
Founding Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2005-07-23
Posts: 6853

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

SSC was lurking just below (pun intended), and would probably end up on the list if I was completely honest with myself. But I felt I had to include at least one WotLK instance. And I never saw Ulduar, so...

I thought of including BWL for the cool fights but the depression room was so damn unecessary. There's even a gate that could gave been used if we had rep or something.

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#10 2011-01-28 19:04:41

Narnias
Nagamemnon
From: Denmark
Registered: 2007-05-29
Posts: 641

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
<3 <3 <3 Obscure <3 <3 <3
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

this is awesome reading big_smile


Sic Vic Pacem Para Bellum - If you want peace, prepare for war

aka. Nagamemnon

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#11 2011-01-28 19:08:16

Obscure
Founding Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2005-07-23
Posts: 6853

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Thanks for comments guys. Keep coming with your favorite instances and your reasons for choosing them.
I wish I saw Ulduar, seems many like that one... Only instance I've never seen.

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#12 2011-01-29 12:36:19

Lydo
Guild Member
Registered: 2005-08-15
Posts: 1967

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Great post.

That is exactly the order I would put them aswell !

SSC and AQ40 would deserve to be on this list aswell, due to the unique/cool/complicated boss mechanics at the time of C'thun, twin emperors and Lady Vashj.

Last edited by Lydo (2011-01-29 12:40:10)

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#13 2011-01-29 17:40:44

Grimbold
Guild Member
Registered: 2010-03-07
Posts: 442

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Although lots of people dont like it due to how the trash worked, i enjoyed Mount Hyjal alot. It had a different feeling to it.

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#14 2011-01-29 21:50:02

Kwindu
Uncertified member
Registered: 2010-07-28
Posts: 83

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

How can you avoid picking 5 vanilla raids? sad

Even LBRS > Karaz.

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#15 2011-01-29 21:53:58

Obscure
Founding Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2005-07-23
Posts: 6853

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

hehe I completely forgote.. even stratholme was a raid back in the day, and damn I loved the place.

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#16 2011-01-29 23:37:36

Elris
Dragonslayer, Officer
From: Sweden - Dalarna - Horndal
Registered: 2005-10-02
Posts: 897

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

awsome reading Obs !! keep it up big_smile


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#17 2011-02-01 14:46:52

Unlockplz
Guild Member
Registered: 2008-06-07
Posts: 195

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Another great read, and I must say I agree; Kara was awesome! I love all those small details they fitted there and in alot of the other instances as well, makes it fun to explore and look for stuff other than just bosses. Personal favourite though: Black Temple <3 (I think, hard to decide!)


Zonekiller

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#18 2011-02-02 08:09:15

Zenghu
Guild Friend
From: Bubble
Registered: 2008-12-03
Posts: 298

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Awesome read, indeed.

My list would be different, tho. Because for me Karazhan was never THAT cool. Only Shade of Aran was a boss I really enjoyed back there. And never, ever really enjoyed ICC in any mode. Boring, lacking colours and "change" that other raid instances had, excluding ToC. Black Temple was cool, but not cool enough, I enjoyed Illidan + Reliquary of Souls a lot. And 2 bosses is not enough for me to enjoy whole instance.  Tho, if I had the chance to play Sunwell Plateau at lvl 70 that would be my first pick (one of the few things I never had the chance to do at all hmm). :E

#5 BWL
#4 Vanilla Naxxramas
#3 Zul'Gurub
#2 Ulduar
#1 AQ40

Last edited by Zenghu (2011-02-02 08:15:43)


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#19 2011-02-02 11:14:31

Windir
Founding Member
From: Sweden, Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 3741

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Black Temple is my personal fav. Cool setting, cool bosses and nice amount of trash. Vanilla Naxx is on a close 2nd place (even tho I / we didn't get too far in).
Karazhan on 3rd. The place is amazing.Fell in love with 10man raids back then.

I really don't understand why people have AQ40 on their list. The huge War Effort event leading up to opening was quite cool, but it created way too high expectations. Only cool bossencounter were Twin Emps. They guy that came up with Battleguard Sarthura encounter had to be high... and Princess Huhuran...had to wait 30 fucking minutes between every wipe due to shieldwall on cooldown on the MT's...

Ulduar aswell... Never liked it, and it made quitting much easier


Outside lies doom

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#20 2011-02-05 00:17:59

Zenghu
Guild Friend
From: Bubble
Registered: 2008-12-03
Posts: 298

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Windir wrote:

I really don't understand why people have AQ40 on their list. The huge War Effort event leading up to opening was quite cool, but it created way too high expectations. Only cool bossencounter were Twin Emps. They guy that came up with Battleguard Sarthura encounter had to be high... and Princess Huhuran...had to wait 30 fucking minutes between every wipe due to shieldwall on cooldown on the MT's...

Ach, C'thun is the coolest boss atm in-game, imo. Yogg-saron is close second.
Twin Emperors was a bit boring as a tank healer + raid announcer (as in, did we get more than 4% off the hp per teleport or not...). Sartura was fun, intense and chaotic. I don't remember waiting 30 min after every wipe on Huhuran at all, just "pop your pots and let's go". I was leveling while the war effort came to a close end, so I was just at level 60 and thrown into MC.


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#21 2011-02-05 17:37:34

Apox
Founding Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2005-02-11
Posts: 5353
Website

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Great read, wakes alot of memories. And I can only agree with the choices except that I would put BWL on #5.
It has a tiresome (chaotic) first encounter, a horrible depression room and a bit boring trash, but other than that BWL was cool, and Nefarian is one of the top 5 ever bosses IMO. Goes above Naxxramas on my list just because I only saw one boss in Naxx40, and Naxx25 wasn't exactly too much fun.

AQ40 was pure crap. What Windir wrote, plus the insanely long corpseruns made it a nuisance to raid that place. But the feeling when we got Twin Emps down made it all worthwile anyway. Too bad we never got to poke the Eye.


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#22 2011-02-05 18:24:49

Tully
Guild Member
From: Elverum, Norway
Registered: 2005-08-01
Posts: 984

Re: Book of Obscure Remedies, Chapter 3: The 5 Best Raid Instances

Apox wrote:

AQ40 was pure crap. What Windir wrote, plus the insanely long corpseruns made it a nuisance to raid that place. But the feeling when we got Twin Emps down made it all worthwile anyway. Too bad we never got to poke the Eye.

Hey, we poked it! Just not hard enough wink

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