The Enigma Order

Baqa · 2012-01-25 00:08:32

HS is a wierd ability. It's dmg is purely physical, it's expensive, and its highly situational.

rage starvation is bad, its very bad. It's probably worse for arms, then TG, then SMF. So, when do you decide popping a HS without risking rage starvation, hence increasing dps?
There is only one single thing thats worse than rage starvation, and thats having unused rage. A general thumb rule is HS when over 70 rage, but that doesn't really apply to optimal play.
The trends are changing for us warriors with each patch. During 4.2, TG was the strongest dps spec. 5% behind lurked SMF, then 10% behind TG again, drowsed arms. Tier sets, hidden ilvls, and current abilities and mechanics made it so. For instance, TG only beat SMF due to its easily aquired 2handers, and the nature of the tier setbonus, more directly, its 4 set bonus. Dealing weapon dmg as fire dmg on RB. 2 handers got higher weapondmg, hence TG beating SMF. 2 weapons equals 2x weapondmg, hence beating arms. 2x1H weapondmg beating 1x2H weapon dmg, hence SMF beating arms. Then 4.3 happened.

Fury got nerfed, a pure 5% dmg nerf, more or less. itemization got changed. the new tier were favouring arms a lot more than Fury. Less crit-less haste-more mastery. Haste became better for TG warriors than its previous mastery, seeing t2 bonus made HS cost 10 less rage during IR. With a spam of HS, during IR, whilest still keeping rotaion up, made rage generation being a lot more favourable. stats like hit became a lot higher, raising its SEP value to above crit, until a 19% value were reached. So, why did crit become less good? the answer is simple enough: DW got fixed/nerfed. combined with 5% dmg nerf, the spec got more than 5% worse. Arms didn't become much better, but items kept valuing arms as it did before, whilest Fury got a tripplenerf. Bossmechanics favoured more AOE burst, and less singletarget burst. Mobility was kept about the same.

So to the topic: when to use heroic strike:

TG:
as a rage dump, above 60 rage. during IR it drops with 10.

SMF:
over 60 rage. During IR it completely crush RB, and you use RB as you usually use HS (As a rage dump). meaning you spam HS during IR like there was no tomorrow.

Arms:
Over 80 rage. During IR it drops with 10, THOUGH, there is currently a heated discussion going on amongst top warriors, seing a lot of them prioritize it above slam during IR. No clear answer yet, but ought to be tested(obviously with a 3/3 incite build).

Cheers.
Frewt.

Warsaw · 2012-01-25 17:02:34

Noted. Cheers!

Ripley · 2012-01-26 01:14:17

It's nice to see something here but may i ask who this is aimed at? Only warriors that i can see are you, entrophius and myself and we're pretty competent. DPS is my OS and I've not gathered 2+ piece T13 so I'm not giving it as much attention but still whenever i play this seriously MS i read/think a ton about it.

Rage starvation:
Fury>SMF>Arms
I'd say fury is the most rage starved because you can actually miss and get several seconds where you cant do anything. Then i'd say SMF is pretty notorious for having lots of rage to play with and much smoother generation compared to TG. However, You cant miss as arms.. i've never heard of an arms warrior being rage starved unless they spammed HC strike way too much.

Once you play warrior for a while it becomes really easy not to cap rage (almost entirely) so that point is irrelevant imo.

About fury nerf: The 5% dmg nerf wasn't the only thing that happened that patch.. i'd say we're doing quite damn well performance wise.

Also i'd say its the fights in dragonsoul not the stats on tier that favours arms more than fury.

Maybe im not understanding your point but crit didn't become "less good".. hit just became much better (to ~19%) given the 2 piece t13 bonus for rage generation as fury. The 5% dmg "nerf" affects all stats equally.

Once i get 2 piece i'll worry more about my priority but for now i've got other things to worry about:)

Last edited by Ripley (2012-01-26 01:15:59)

Baqa · 2012-01-26 16:55:31

Crit became less good. Deepwounds was fixed, making TG and SMF favouring less crit, combine that with the need to keep rage for heroicstrike, which is more DPR vs RB, reducing mastery even further. Haste increase rage gen, but, hit more so.

Regarding your understanding of rage starvation; it was faulty idd. Arms is the class were rage starvation is the worst. If you rage starve as arms, you miss MS, you lose a lot of dps. if you miss rage for any of your 3 abilities, you lose tons of dps. it not just there, but as in the long term. its also the spec that is the least forgiving when it comes to rotation upkeep.

I wrote that the 5% fury nerf wasn't the only nerf. I also said that the fights in DS favours more AOE burst, but on the contrary of what you believe; current tier items does not favour fury at all. there is close to no crit, there is close to no hit, virtually no haste at all , and alot of mastery (the worst stat for fury). WHILEST; Arms likes mastery, and dislikes haste. out of the BIS set, there is no item that features haste. out of tier items, there is only shoulder, but then again; you have spine shoulders.

and your reasoning in how (and i quote); crit didn't become "less good".. hit just became much better::
hit doesn't suddently become better. Crit was better on paper straight after the 8% cap, and thats not just going to change over night, due to a new tier. No, in fact it was a direct result to Deepwounds (DW) beging nerfed/fixed. that and the crappy stats on the items from DS (as far as fury goes). Now don't get me wrong; fury is still a viable spec, both fury specs are. It beats arms on pure singletarget burst, but not by as much as arms does on AOEburst.

the post was more less aimed to everyone, except the current warriors raiding. However, I did hope to get some respond on the HS during IR instead of slam as arms.

Ripley · 2012-01-26 17:41:22

Seems you ignored most of what I said, anyways:
- You have to rage starve yourself as arms. Thats my point, so arms IS the least affected by rage starvation unless you spam HS expecting to always have rage. The 2hfury/smf misses often so you get strings where you cant do a ton of consistent damage due to inconsistent rage income. I have never ever been "rage starved" as arms unless I caused it myself.
- The stats on gear are a factor but it doesnt come close to the fights being the major factor imo.
- Hit IS better precisely because of the T13 2set bonus and yes stat priorities can change based on set bonuses, are u serious?
- We were both buffed and nerfed to bring us in line at the same time and fury/arms are still really close to each other.
- I dont see entrophius at the bottom of meters as fury.

Baqa · 2012-01-26 20:37:24

lolol, I you say what I said lolol. Basically what I said was that IF you get rage starved as arms (ofc your doing something wrong), it would be WAY worse than being rage starved as fury (even though thats pretty bad as well).
Hit is better due to a lot of factors, the 2set bonus being one of those, THOUGH, hit was worse than crit at 8% hit before the DW fix, which was fixed after 4.3 went live.
I dont see myself bottom as fury either; doesn't make it a good spec nevertheless (warriors in general is pretty "Meh-ish" atm). Arms and fury on a singletarget fight is extremely close, though arms is better for DS for sure (like we both stated).

The Enigma Order

Announcement

#1 2012-01-25 00:08:32

HS-when to use

#2 2012-01-25 17:02:34

Re: HS-when to use

#3 2012-01-26 01:14:17

Re: HS-when to use

#4 2012-01-26 16:55:31

Re: HS-when to use

#5 2012-01-26 17:41:22

Re: HS-when to use

#6 2012-01-26 20:37:24

Re: HS-when to use

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