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#1 2012-08-01 04:43:56

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

MoP changes for Hunters

Hello fellow Hunters or wonderful people that want to play Hunters,

I have been doing some research into the 5.0 patch, and decided I would collate together some findings that people may or may not already know.

Hit chance: the hit cap against a boss in MoP will be 7.5% (instead of the current 8%). The hit cap against a same-level creature will be 3% (instead of the current 5%).

Bosses will have a 7.5% dodge chance, a 7.5% parry chance (front only) and a 7.5% block chance (front only).

Our pets can be dodged or parried, but they automatically gain expertise with our hit rating if were hit capped, our pet is expertise capped

Reference: warcrafthuntersunion.com


A quick note to add, is that our pets get 50% of our Hit as Expertise, and 50% of our Expertise as Hit, the outcome is the same, but the comment on WHU wasn't completely clear on this.

For raiding at 85

Hit: ~769
Expertise: ~769

(Slight variance may occur and these values are NOT final, they are based on stacking the stats up very high on the beta at level 85 then calculating backwards to minimise rounding errors.)

Using my current gear, I have successfully obtained these caps using wowreforge. Obviously, some of the expertise will come from your current hit rating, however the major loss was to be found in the form of mastery (~400 rating lost), however, with the new raid / pet mastery buff, this loss most likely won't be noticable. (ToDe edit let me bare in mind that this person that posted this had full HC gear with the Polearm from Madness which results may VARY)

Moving onwards to specs, based on simulationcraft modelling (using full BiS Heroic DS gear), MM is coming out slightly above BM by approximately ~1k dps, and vastly above SV by a huge margin of around ~8k dps.

Reference: http://www.simulationcraft.org/503/Hunter.html

There is a lot of maths surrounding the simulation and I won't be discussing it here, however it appears as though some of the most recent changes may not have been taken into account by the sims, such as the changes to Thrill of the Hunt / Blink Strike.

Plus they seem to have used some wierd values for Hit and Expertise, however I don't know if this is intentional or not.

I'll try and keep this post updated with an other relevant information that I find.

I have referenced WHU and Simulationcraft where appropriate.

After having a discussion on a Live Stream with some of the people in a top US guild (Midwinter), it appears that Haste is going to become irrelvant at 90, with it requiring quite alot to get the equivalent 758 plateau.

It has appeared that Survival is ahead of BM slightly (BM may have the edge on 100% single target fights) and MM is way behind at 90. Kind of disappointing but there is still a lot of testing and maths to be done, especially surrounding Thrill of the Hunt and Glaives synergy (not on the GCD but costs focus).

It may be possible to use the large amounts of focus saved through Thrill of the Hunt, to get Glaives off on CD without sacrifing DPS from Explosive Shot.

Another piece of excellent info is finally a fix for Explosive Shot. It will use the same mechanics found on Ignite. You can fire off all 3 Explosive Shots, the damage will be summed and divided across the ticks, so there will no longer be any clipping found on these ticks, creating a much smoother and less clunky playstyle.

Credit to Midwinter on US-Ysera for providing discussion on there stream about mechanics.

Edit: After checking the Beta / PTR, our PvP 4set now increases focus regen by 15%, this is still a dire change and really should be revised to be similar to Warriors, i.e. 60% disarm reduction.

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#2 2012-08-01 04:44:35

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

So with more beta changes incoming (NOT FINAL), it appears that SV, which was the top MoP PvE spec, is being nerfed. BM is being buffed slightly to bring it in line with the nerfed SV and MM is being buffed to insane levels.

MM is looking to become the dominant spec for MoP if these changes stay active.

What's being nerfed / changed for SV?

* Black Arrow's damage is being reduced by approximately 40%.
* Explosive Shot is changing, however the notes on MMO-Champion are either incorrect (data-mining does that) or just haven't been updated fully. So can't comment on whether ES is being nerfed or not. All I can say is it looks liek the focus cost is being reduced from 44 down to 25.
* Cobra Shot is being nerfed by at least 15%, probably more with the removla of a +damage modifier.
* Improved Serpent Sting is being buffed to cause SS to do 100% more damage.

What's being nerfed / changed for BM?

* Beast Cleave is being nerfed from 70% down to 25%. BM AoE was -rediculous- before.
* Focus Fire will restore less focus to your pet and grant you less haste when the Frenzy effects are consumed by the ability. Frenzy also grants your pet less haste per stack (10% instead of 15%).
* Go For The Throat is being nerfed alot, no longer granting a 100% focus reduction cost for your pet and only granting 15 focus for your pet on auto-shot critical hit.
* The Cobra Shot change for SV also applies to BM.
* Kill Command's focus cost increased by 3 but damage increased by around 25%.
* Cobra Strikes has been buffed to stack upto 6 times.
* The base Mastery level for BM has been buffed from 13% to 16% increased pet damage.

What's being buffed / changed for MM?

* Aimed Shot has been buffed by approximately a factor of 150%. It now deals 400% weapon damage + ~40k damage.
* Bombardment has just had a wording change, and reduces Multi-shot by 20 focus, not 50%.
* Chimera Shot will now deal 300% weapon damage, up from 115%. The +damage modifier has also almost doubled in value. The focus cost has increased by 1 to 45 now.
* Master Marksmen now only needs 3 stacks instead of 5 to give a free Aimed Shot.
* Wild Quiver's base proc chance has been increased from 17% to 32%, however they only do 50% weapon damage.
* Steady Shot damage buffed by a small amount (5% more weapon damage and around 300 more +damage.)

Changes for all specs

* Arcane Shot will now deal 110% weapon damage and the +damage modifier is increased by almost double. Focus cost has been reduced to 20.
* Glaive Toss' damage approximately doubled.
* Barrage's damage doubled on main (now 640% weapon damage) and secondary (160% now 200% weapon damage) targets.
* Powershot's damage doubled (to 800% weapon damage) on primary target and any targets hit between you and the target.
* Thrill of the Hunt now has a 15% chance to make your next 3 Arcane or Multi shots have there focus cost reduced by 20.

If these changes go live on the Beta and stay where they are, all 3 specs will be competitive in PvE and rougly equal in standing. MM has been languishing down at the bottom for a long time and rightly deserved these buffs.

Hopefully, we can start to see some intersting synergy occuring between our talents and Hunters become a bit more fun.

Syngery Example

Glaive Toss is currently off the GCD but costs focus. By combining Glaive Toss with Thrill of the Hunt, you can maintain your Arcane Shot / Multi-shot DPS for free whilst also throwing out your Glaives.

This will be even more effective when using Thrill of the Hunt as MM.

Bombardment reduces Multi-shot to a 20 focus cost. Thrill of the Hunt reduces it by another 20. Thus Multi-shot would be free. Thrill of the Hunt procs from any ranged attack, so with Multi-shot hitting many targets, you can most likely ensure 100% uptime of both Thrill of the Hunt and Bombardment. Chuck in your Glaives as well for added AoE damage, and you've got some serious numbers flying about.

References: MMO-Champion and Elitistjerks

This will be edited as changes happen.

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#3 2012-08-01 04:46:37

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

New simulations are up on simulationcraft.org, with these changes taken into account, and MM has taken the lead at 85 in 5.0.4 by a huge margin.

MM: ~51k+ dps
BM: ~47k+ dps
SV: ~46k+ dps

However at 90, BM has made a surge to the top, widening the gap between itself and SV. Obviously they have simm'd it around Tier 14 HC gear, but a 7k dps gap between BM and SV, is pretty rediculous. MM then falls another ~1k dps behind SV.

In summary

The mega-buffs to MM are looking to only be amazingly OP at 85, and sadly, not at 90.

SV is not as nerfed as I initially made out.

BM continues to surge ahead as the end-game spec for PvE. However, bear in mind all simulations are done on 100% singl-target Patchwerk style fights. So any form of movement / target switching, and BM is going to lose a lot of dps.

References: Simulationcraft and Elitistjerks

And i'd like to thank Oumi posting on the WoW Forums but i'd thought i would post it here contains alot of information that i approve, READ ON!

Last edited by Tasteofdeath (2012-08-01 04:47:01)

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#4 2012-08-09 16:28:36

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

Mists of Pandaria Beta - Build 15952


Arcane Shot weapon damage reduced by 32% and additional damage reduced by 52%.
Glaive Toss base damage doubled, but the primary target will take 4 times as much damage from each strike, down from 8 times. AP scaling was doubled to 20%.
Serpent Sting damage was reduced by 20%.
Steady Shot damage was reduced by 29% and additional damage was reduced by 75%.

Talents
Barrage now costs 30 Focus, down from 40. Weapon damage to secondary target doubled.
Blink Strike damage bonus upon blinking tripled.
Glaive Toss now costs 15 Focus, down from 20. Damage bonus was halved.
Lynx Rush damage doubled.
Powershot damage to secondary targets doubled and Focus cost halved.
Thrill of the Hunt now has a 30% proc chance, up from 20%.

Beast Mastery
Beast Cleave now strikes all other nearby enemy targets for 30%, up from 25%.
Focus Fire now grants 6% haste per stack, up from 5%.
Kill Command damage and scaling reduced by 30%.

Beast Mastery & Survival
Cobra Shot weapon damage reduced by 30%.

Marksmanship
Aimed Shot weapon damage reduced by 30% and additional damage reduced by 51%.
Chimera Shot weapon damage reduced by 30% and additional damage reduced to 2,617.
Mastery: Wild Quiver weapon damage reduced by 15%.

Survival
Black Arrow damage and AP scaling reduced by 20%.
Explosive Shot damage reduced by 20%.

Pets
Bite damage was reduced by ~20%.
Claw damage was reduced by ~20%.
Smack damage was reduced by ~20%.

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#5 2012-08-10 16:10:33

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

Mists of Pandaria Beta - Build 15961

Beast Mastery
Focus Fire now consumes your pet's Frenzy stack, restoring 6 Focus to your pet and increasing your ranged haste by 8% (was 6%) for each Frenzy stack consumed.
Frenzy proc now grants 8% increased attack speed, down from 10%.

Pets
Demoralizing Screech now has an 8 sec cooldown, down from 10 sec.
Monstrous Bite now has a 10 sec duration on the healing debuff, up from 8 sec.

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#6 2012-08-17 03:45:57

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

Mists of Pandaria Beta - Build 15983


Arcane Shot weapon damage increased to 100% from 75%. Additional damage increased by 76%.
Aspect of the Beast no longer has a cooldown.
Aspect of the Cheetah no longer has a cooldown.
Aspect of the Fox no longer has a cooldown.
Aspect of the Hawk no longer has a cooldown.
Aspect of the Pack no longer has a cooldown.
Kill Shot weapon damage increased to 420%, up from 300%.

Marksmanship
Careful Aim now grants 75% crit, up from 60%.

Survival
Explosive Shot damage increased by ~5%.

Last edited by Tasteofdeath (2012-08-17 03:46:10)

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#7 2012-09-06 22:57:13

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

Hunters consistently occupying 3 out of 4 lowest positions as per sim dps.

This could be tricky for you guys!

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#8 2012-09-07 13:02:04

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

My sig is relevent to that statement.

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#9 2012-09-14 12:22:50

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

Hunters right now still feel like they are lacking maybe due to extra cooldowns to play with Murder of the Cows is a good DPS gainer but the balance between us and other classes is vast at 85 we are below and been advised that a PvP trinket is BiS for Hunters right now because "Simmed Numbers (lol)" but yes i think if level 90 doesn't seem better for us i see that 3 Hunters would be a waste of space lets say compared to a Warrior so i could see a mast amount of Hunters either Rerolling or quiting

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#10 2012-09-14 16:18:09

Lamme
Guildmaster
Registered: 2005-08-21
Posts: 8597

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

I'm just gonna re-post something from just before DS release:

Just so much win!

Random quote:

some very savvy MMO-champion poster wrote:

I've already talked to people from/associated with Vodka and BL and they are pretty much having their hunters re-roll and/or sit for the bosses because the damage is not competitive in any form

I mean, really, I can't wait! I think I'm gonna have myself sit out or reroll!

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#11 2012-10-05 10:14:19

ensiferrum
Uncertified member
Registered: 2010-06-17
Posts: 566

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkiOHX7e … ontext-gfa

One way to analyze the MOP changes for hunters big_smile

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#12 2012-10-05 12:43:17

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

From my humble opinion as displayed last night Mage's need nerfed and I need gear I getting outdpsed by another Hunter.

Can't really watch that video at College getting some werid looks when my classmates came in the room.

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#13 2012-10-05 16:56:28

Cuzi
Guild Member
Registered: 2012-07-24
Posts: 10

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

lololol tode, i'm proffesional

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#14 2012-10-05 17:22:05

Tasteofdeath
Guild Member
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 516

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

Cuzi wrote:

lololol tode, i'm proffesional

You suck and lick my left nut.

Edit - L2Spell as well

Last edited by Tasteofdeath (2012-10-05 17:24:06)

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#15 2012-10-06 01:36:28

Cuzi
Guild Member
Registered: 2012-07-24
Posts: 10

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

still pro, tbh i enjoy licking your left nut <3

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#16 2012-10-06 08:29:02

Milkshake
Guild Member
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Registered: 2012-06-26
Posts: 164
Website

Re: MoP changes for Hunters

ewwwwwwwwww gigi :C


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