The Enigma Order

Okey, nice to hear

I understand that currently we have bit unfair situation with retribution paladins. I know that both you and Phill would want to raid as retribution and we have talked about it with other officers. Thing is that in TBC melee dps spots are quite limited, 3 - 4 optimal / raid, and you guys need to compete against other melee dps classes. Our current dps melee's Warsaw, 12jango and Lydo are usually toppin the DPS meters so that's why we usually often prioritize them to raids. It's very important that we have max dps in encounters like Vashj or Kael and that's just bare fact. There's usually often feral druid as dps in raids and that's the spot where you guys could compete. There's just one big advantage taking feral druid to raid and that's fact that they can help as tanks when needed. Retribution paladins just can't tank even nearly as good as feral druids, so you need to stick as dps all the time. And that's prolly one thing that has hold you guys so long in back.

However we are trying to fix our raid combinations for hyjal/bt raiding and we are trying to reserve dps spot for melee paladins too. BUT we want that paladin be top geared, so it kinda means S3 or S2/T5 after 2.4 retri gear update.


Anyway welcome back, i hope you can sign activily at least 1 - 2 raids / week and to say truth i kinda except it too

Blizzard needs to equal out melee/ranged/healer spots tbh. 7 healers, 7 melee and 7 ranged + 4 tanks would be most fair.

the day when hybrid dps classes are picked to raids over rogues is the day when rogue class is dead in pve, we are already on the edge.. what do we bring to the raid? absolutely nothing but dps.

Lydo wrote:

the day when hybrid dps classes are picked to raids over rogues is the day when rogue class is dead in pve, we are already on the edge.. what do we bring to the raid? absolutely nothing but dps.

Nobody is talking about picking hybrids over rogues, but I think it's fair to say we don't need or want rogues in every melee spot open. Also, no one who plays a hybrid and has a normal amount of IQ wanna be able to outdps pure dps classes like mages and rogues, but we wanna have a combination of dps and utility good enough to be a great choice for raiding. 80% of the pure classes dmg would be ok (much less and most of the absentminded people in this game would go "lol get a real dps instead"), and then utility enough to make up for those last 20% in terms of buffing other dps so they do alot more dmg than without you.

2 Retri paladins is really nice just because of the things they contribute for the raid.You can even give 1 paladin Nightfall wich increases everyone's spelldamage (alltho its a chance on hit a friend of uses this lvl 60 weapon in BT).Not always wielding Nightfall ofc :p but it does its job when it gets a bit hard on a boss.
http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=52882

makes a great example.

Lol at the boss called "Brutallus".  He just _got_ to be a bad ass.

Ihsahn wrote:

will the hybrid make up for the "loss" of pure dps in heavy dps encounters like the upcoming Brutallus where all dps needs to go above 2k dps to be able to beat the enrage timer ?

No idea, but I know for sure shamans in BT can push 1800dps given the right encounter and gear. Perhaps even more. (in the same fights rogues are pushing 2200)

Ihsahn wrote:

will the hybrid make up for the "loss" of pure dps in heavy dps encounters like the upcoming Brutallus where all dps needs to go above 2k dps to be able to beat the enrage timer ?

I normally dont post here anymore and just read for the discussions you have going sometimes...

But an enh shaman is THE best melee group buffer you can get. WF, +10% ap, heroism, they do the most for a 5 man group. Also not putting a wf totem with a retri paladin is a missed opportunity. 3% crit raidwide and jow and jol up are quite imba for the raid aswell, and you add 2% dmg to the group (it aint much but it comes with the aura anyway).

Only good benchmark I have so far for myself is being 3rd in dmg done on the 2nd boss in hyjal with 1026 dps while having to hold back since I almost overtook the MT in threat. So thats dps without enh shammy buffs but just wf, almost no trinket cooldowns used and no AW used and skipping some cycles in dps to not overtake the MT (i have no clue why he didnt have more threat).